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Plore
Junior Member
374 Posts |
 Posted - 02/21/2008 : 06:56:44
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Does anyone know why alot of these new bows advertise two speed ratings. For example 317-325fps, 307-315fps, 330-342fps. I don't get that. Mathews just advertises one speed like 315fps.
Paul Lorenc
734-558-3554 (cell)
Southern Michigan Land Manager
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jslucas
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 07:10:32
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Most of the new bows have two settings on the cams for let-off, either 65% or 80%. The two settings will give you different speeds, assuming everything else is the same. The lower the % let-off, the faster the bow will shoot.
Jason Lucas
jslucas22@yahoo.com |
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JimmyC
Junior Member
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 08:06:26
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| Just curious, what kind of arrow weight are you talking about when those speeds are mentioned? Is it standardized? Is the draw length standard as well? |
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jslucas
New Member
84 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 08:10:20
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If I remember correctly, the industry uses a standardized test which is 70lb draw weight, 30" draw length and 350 grain arrow.
Jason Lucas
jslucas22@yahoo.com |
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Plore
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 08:49:28
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Yea these are the industry standard IBO speed ratings that the manufacture advertises their bows perform at. For example if you look at the Bowtech 82nd airborne. It advertises 330-338 (smooth cam) or 342-350 (speed cam). The General advertises 307-315.
Paul Lorenc
734-558-3554 (cell)
Southern Michigan Land Manager |
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 02/21/2008 : 23:04:39
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Paul, I'm not sure about now but back in the 90's the 2 different speeds where for IBO and another Bow leauge (I can't remember what its called). The difference was in the weight of the arrows tested IBO says 5gr per 1lb of draw weight, the other one said 7gr per 1lb of draw weight. The standard for testing the speed of a bow is 70lb draw weight with a 30" arrow, the arrow weight depended on what system they where checking the speed for. I don't know if that is what it is for now or not. I wouldn't believe what they have posted on the paper work for the bow speed's. I have shot several bows that should have been in the 200+ range and have yet to get one over 180, my Bow tech is rated for 225 I believe and I am only getting about 175 or so with carbon arrow's and I loose 12 fps with alum. arrows. Put the bow through a cono prior to buying it with a comparable setup to that witch you will be using and I bet you get a big surprize at the difference in speed (your readings vs. posted speeds).
This speed thing still kills me (I have never been one to insist on speed). I would much reather have a bow that is quiet then one that is fast. I read a article back in the 80's that delt with speed vs noise. Using a standard 20 yard shot your bow would have to be going around 750 fps to beat the speed of sound (ie deers reflexes). The article ended with the person doing the test stating that he would much reather have a bow that only goes 100 fps and is quiet then one that goes 250 fps (supper sonic speeds in them days) and is loud. As with the quiet slow bow he know's for the most part the deer is not going to move when he shoots at it as with the loud bow you have a better chance of the deer moving on the release of the arrow resulting in bad shot placement.
I hope this makes everything as clear as mud for you as I believe I have confused myself at this point.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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teamasc
Forum Admin
1127 Posts |
Posted - 02/22/2008 : 16:05:02
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Frank, the other rating was AMO. That is pretty much been dropped, now as everyone wants speed so the faster IBO gets quoted. I believe Jason is right, that the variation is due to cams with different letoff. Used to be all bows had one cam with one letoff, now it is pretty adjustable. My Bowtech is something like 85%. I could drop the letoff and pick up 5 or so FPS, but I'd rather have the letoff. Also, remember that those speeds are without any type of string silencers, which will drop speed.
Also, Frank, I agree, quiet is better than fast, but in all my time hunting deer I have yet to have one duck the arrow, even with my insanely loud Jennings. Having said that, today's bows are designed so you can have both quite and fast.
Are you sure on your numbers for your bow? You should easily be able to get over 200 FPS out of a newer bow with carbons. My setup is shooting 270, with a 395 grain arrow. My IBO rating is 310 for my bow. While the IBO doesn't give you a number you are likely to shoot, it does give you something to compare against other bows. For example, if you have two bows you shoot well, are equally quite, and feel good in your hand, same price, and one has an IBO rating 10 FPS faster than the other, I'm going to take the faster one. If you take a bow shooting 170 fps and one shooting 270 with the same arrow, the faster bow is going to break bone better in the case of a bad shot.
Todd Alexander
ASC Membership Services Manager
talexander@team-asc.com
www.team-asc.com
734-552-4839 |
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JimmyC
Junior Member
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/23/2008 : 09:01:57
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Todd,
Regarding penetration issues, especially with bone, I thought you might find this info interesting:
http://tradgang.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=24
This is the ongoing study by Dr. Ed Ashby regarding penetration. It is the only one of it's kind that I am aware of and being many years in process there is a lot of info to take in but some real eye opening findings.
From what I am learning, an arrow with excellent broadhead/arrow integrity and significant weight trumps any other factor.
This speed aspect is of interest to me and most bowhunters obviously, that is why I bring this study up as it really turns a lot of common perceptions and "rules" on their head and gives us a new way to look at how we bowhunt.
Jim
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Edited by - JimmyC on 02/23/2008 09:05:10 |
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teamasc
Forum Admin
1127 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 09:29:46
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Jim,
I agree, weight is a big factor. What I was saying is that two bows shooting the same weight arrow where one is shooting slower, the faster one will penetrate better. Having a heavy slow arrow out of a a bow will out penetrate a lighter faster arrow out of the same bow(in most instances). What you need to find is a good balance of speed and penetration. I'm happy with my bow shooting 270 fps with a 395 grain arrow. I've had complete passthroughs at 35 yds, and even had very good penetration on some not so good shots. One thing I do firmly believe is that a carbon arrow makes up for some of the weight lost over a aluminum arrow. With my old Jennings, I had a hard time getting passtrhrough, but when I switched to a lighter carbon with the same head, I never had a problem getting a pass through.
Todd Alexander
ASC Membership Services Manager
talexander@team-asc.com
www.team-asc.com
734-552-4839 |
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JimmyC
Junior Member
126 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 11:34:53
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Cool Todd, I understand what you are saying.
Being that most of my shots happen at 15 yards or less and trajectory is not an issue for me, I am experimenting with going the heavy route. I am currently working up a heavier carbon arrow that will give me about 600 grains with a soundly attached fixed 2 blade (Magnus II or the new Zwickey single bevel "No Mercy" on a steel adapter rather than aluminum). Not sure how I will like it yet, will take a few rounds on the 3D course this summer to know for sure.
What is your preferred broadhead?
Jim |
Edited by - JimmyC on 02/25/2008 16:01:13 |
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 16:50:48
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Hey Jim, I prefer the Thunderhead in a 100gr. I have had nothing but good luck with this head and have shot it for over 25years. I have used about 20 different heads and have always come back to the thunderhead.
Todd, yes my numbers where incorrect I'm at about 265fps with carbon out of my bow tech (the loss was the same 12fps) and was shooting about 250fps with the jennings. The best I ever got out of my Jennings was 260 that was with a 23" 2213 shooting 76lbs draw weight on a overdraw with a 100 gr tip and 4" feathers, if I remember correctly the arrow weight was a total of about 300gr or so. I now shoot a arrow that I believe weighs about 550-650gr I still like the heavy alm. arrows over the carbon call me old fashioned. Todd I never had a problem with complete passthrough with my old Jennings untill 2 years ago, even with the new Bow tech I didn't get complete passthrough on the doe I shot this year (feathers held the arrow on the off side). I have shot deer out to 35 yards and went right through them, at 25 yards I was blowing right through both sholders with my Jennings that thing was a beast when it came to going through deer. That was why when I shot that deer out on 116 and didn't blow through it I was so upset. I shot that deer at about 25 yards right behind the sholder and didn't go through, at that time I knew I needed a new bow.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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Plore
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2008 : 18:47:16
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I'm convinced the baddest broadhead on the planet is the Slick Trick. Been shooting bows and experimenting 20 years. The 100 grain NAP Thunderheads always ended up proving best until the Slick Trick. Been using those last 3 years and nothing compares (at least for me). They do two things. Shoot exactly like field tips plus penetrate like nothing I've ever seen. My son got a deer this year at about 23 yards and went through both shoulder bones. Unbelievable. Shooting about 55lbs. of draw weight with a Darton.
Guys who created the Slick Trick are from Alabama and designed them to kill wild pigs. When you shoot a whitetail its like a slug went through it. The price is right too. Can't go wrong.
Paul Lorenc
734-558-3554 (cell)
Southern Michigan Land Manager |
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teamasc
Forum Admin
1127 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2008 : 07:58:52
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Paul,
I started using the Slick Tricks this year, too. They fly unbelievable well, and My broadhead target won't stop them out to 25 yds. Unfortunately, I never put them on a deer to see how they work in the flesh.
Frank, when I did my carbon arrows, I chose one that would give me equal KE to what I was shooting previously with aluminum, well within 1 ftlb, and there was a drastic difference in on game performance. Not sure what it was, could have been my arrow spine was a bit week, and the stiffer carbons improved it, lot of other things. All I know is I am confident my setup will do its job if I put the arrow on the target. That, IMHO, is the number one consideration when choosing a setup. Confidence.
Todd Alexander
ASC Membership Services Manager
talexander@team-asc.com
www.team-asc.com
734-552-4839 |
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Plore
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 02/28/2008 : 09:09:43
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In my experience it seems you lose around 30/40fps from the advertised IBO speed. IBO is 70lbs, 30" draw, 5 grains per pound arrow weight. When your bow is setup for hunting the arrows are usually a bit heavier than 5 grains per pound, my draw length is 29",shoot about 62lbs. when hunting, string silencers, etc. All this adds up to less speed. My bow is advertised at 310fps and gets 275fps when setup for hunting.
These newest bows are advertised around 330/350 fps (PSE, Bowtech). So I suspect they get a true 300fps or more when setup for hunting. And they are extrememly quiet. I've shot them and it's amazing. Still wondering if its worth it though. Trying to tune an arrow with a broadhead is harder the faster it goes plus I wonder how durable these bows will end up being. Generating the amount of energy they do might take its toll on their durability. If the thing breaks every two years wouldn't be with it.
Paul Lorenc
734-558-3554 (cell)
Southern Michigan Land Manager |
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JimmyC
Junior Member
126 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2008 : 12:41:37
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Thought you guys might find this link interesting. The fellow, Blacky, that tests these bows is very well respected in the traditional community but I also see he tests some of the more popular compounds. Good way to separate the facts from marketing hype perhaps?
I'm not familiar with compound equipment, do any of the speeds posted for them surprise you at all? I have to admit, the speeds given for the heavy arrows are awesome....and tempting!
bowreports.com |
Edited by - JimmyC on 03/06/2008 12:44:01 |
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Plore
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 03/07/2008 : 08:00:47
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I went to Schupbach's in Jackson recently and shot all the new bows. The Bowtech 82nd airborne at 60lbs., 29" draw, and standard arrow (around 360 grains) shot through the chronograph at 316 fps. Shot 5 arrows from this bow and it was consistant at 316fps. And silky smooth and quiet. And this was with the smooth cam module. You can add speed with the speed cam but it changes the draw cycle. Right now if I were to purchase a bow I think I'd go for the bowtech at 60lbs with smooth cam.
The Mathews bows are really nice as well. All the shops are saying the Bowtechs are out selling the Mathews 5-1.
I shot the new PSE X-Force (rated at 348fps). Its too aggresive for my taste. Has 0 valley at the wall. I mean its right there. If you relax just a hair its ready to go.
Paul Lorenc
734-558-3554 (cell)
Southern Michigan Land Manager |
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Topic |
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Bow Speed Ratings
