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JAK
Junior Member
130 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2007 : 13:00:32
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We are look for some feedback on foodplots for waterfowl. Particularly 104. Does anyone have experience in this area? Our thought was to plant a rice, developed by Bio-logic, but from what I am reading it needs to be planted in 2 to 4 inches of water. Is this something that we feel can be accomplished on 104 and still be affective for 07?
HOW TO PLANT.
Waterfowl Forage can be planted as a dry land crop or in shallow water. Shallow water planting provides a natural way to control weeds that compete with rice. For best results, spread seed on a well-prepared seedbed at 50 lbs. per acre. Use a cultipacker to cover the seed, then flood the seedbed. Alternatively, broadcast the seed into 2 to 4 inches of water, such as the shallow portions of ponds or beaver swamps, then disturb the bottom to cover the seed (riding an ATV over the shallow area will provide ample coverage). Rice will grow in non-flooded fields provided normal rainfall amounts occur and a pre-emergent herbicide is used to control competing weeds.
WHEN TO PLANT.
Waterfowl Forage matures between 100 and 120 days. Therefore, plant at least 120 days before the average fall frost date. The cultivar is very cold tolerant, and will usually continue maturing after the first frost.
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skola
Junior Member
185 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2007 : 16:16:10
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Unfotunately I have no experience with planting rice. I have hunted in places were it has been planted and it really draws in the ducks. The place were I have seen it used is along the feeder streams of a larger river all of which had shallow slow moving water. The person who did the planting basically broadcasted the see along the bank edges. Maybe it would be worth a try to broadcast it around the edge of the pounds and canals, trying to focus on the shallow areas. If the club decides to move forward with this and needs a hand I will volunteer to help out.
Scott Kolarchick |
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Plore
Junior Member
374 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2007 : 16:50:20
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| Sounds interesting. I think Skola has a good approach in targeting the shallow areas, etc. Only issue is timing. 120 days from today puts you at Oct 31. Is there time? |
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rcrit
Starting Member
22 Posts |
Posted - 07/16/2007 : 14:10:49
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I do not have any experience with this either. I would agree that we should do it, but time is short - 120 days from now is mid Nov. If it takes that long to mature we are a little late for this year.
I am willing to help.
Rex |
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 03/20/2008 : 10:21:33
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Ok I know we missed the 07 hunting season, but I'm going to try and get this done for this year. I have placed a call into the DNR to find out about the legalitys (sp?) of it. I will send both Todd and Jeff e-mails reguarding the places to get the seed from. I think we have decided that this would be good in the shallows all over the property(s). I think we should maybe look at doing this on the 114 property in Saginaw as well. I know the ponds in both units have shallow spots and this might help in keeping the ducks and geese there. Any feed back is always welcome when trying to better the propertys.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 03/21/2008 : 16:55:56
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I have talked with the DNR ( 1 oficer) and he said if we plant wild rice in the ponds it will be illegal to hunt them. They say this will not be normal agricultural (sp?) leavings/dropings. Even if we plant it in one pond and don't hunt that pond but shoot ducks/geese coming into that pond it will be illegal.
I guess this is not a very good idea to persue or its not right now. I thought Todd had some information on this but I don't know for sure I will try and get intouch with him and find out. Hopefuly he has something in writing that says this is legal.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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B King
Administrator
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 10:40:25
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Frank
Then explain what flooding ag fields are accomplishing? The DNR does it all the time. Hunt clubs throughout the country do it. Seems like I would consider it an improvement for ducks all year long even when season is not open. Of course not when the ponds freeze over.
This is why so many people don't waterfowl hunt. You really need to be careful. I have heard of guys being arrested in Shiawassee county for hunting a field where the field next to it had spilled corn. The farmer had spilled it out of his gravity wagon. No one had permisson to go over and walk that private property to look for this. I understand how the rules spell this out. In some cases the feds and the state go overboard with waterfowl.
Bob King
ASC Out Of State Coordinator
bking@team-asc.com
kingfisher1719@aol.com |
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 03/22/2008 : 11:04:38
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Bob, if we harvested the rice it would be perfectly legal for us to plant it. As we are not going to harvest it but leave it up. I don't know if it would then be illegal to hunt a standing crop field say corn during the bow season? this might be too much bait. I thought Todd had something on this but havent heard from him yet.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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wbaie
Junior Member
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/23/2008 : 12:10:00
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quote:
Originally posted by frank
I have talked with the DNR ( 1 oficer) and he said if we plant wild rice in the ponds it will be illegal to hunt them. They say this will not be normal agricultural (sp?) leavings/dropings. Even if we plant it in one pond and don't hunt that pond but shoot ducks/geese coming into that pond it will be illegal.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
What a load of BS! That officer like most DNR people are wrong as usual. You can plant and hunt there it's just like planting a food plot for deer or hunting a unharvested farm. That officer gave you some real bad info. If it's not then forget about food plots on any of the properties. |
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 09:00:27
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Willy, the one thing to rember when hunting waterfowl you also have to follow the federal regulations not just the state ones. I don't know if what he said is true or not, all I know is I don't want anyone getting in truble because of something I did. If anyone can find something in writing I will be glad to plant the rice in the ponds, but untill someone does I don't think its a good idea.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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wbaie
Junior Member
297 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 11:28:19
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| I went through the regs last night again to make sure I was right. And food plots are not discussed. You can not bait for ducks but a food plot is not a bait pile. So if we are just dumping corn and other things out there ya then there is a violation. But planting that biologic rice is not baiting. |
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skola
Junior Member
185 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 13:28:53
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I e-mailed the DNR the question. I will post the reply when I get it.
Scott Kolarchick |
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B King
Administrator
333 Posts |
Posted - 03/24/2008 : 21:30:38
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quote:
Originally posted by wbaie
I went through the regs last night again to make sure I was right. And food plots are not discussed. You can not bait for ducks but a food plot is not a bait pile. So if we are just dumping corn and other things out there ya then there is a violation. But planting that biologic rice is not baiting.
If a person was to "attempt" to harvest it in the fall. Would this be a harvestable crop like corn and beans?
Problem with the feds...all it has to do is smell wrong and they will arrest you. Like I said before. I know of a group of guys who went to court to defend themselves because of spillied corn in a neighboring field.
Bob King
ASC Out Of State Coordinator
bking@team-asc.com
kingfisher1719@aol.com |
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frank
Average Member
690 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 08:23:09
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Bob, from what the DNR officer told me I think if we attempted to harvest it and didn't do a "good enough" job then it still could be construed as baiting. Now I don't know for sure but that is my assumption based on the conversation with the officer I had. I like Willy was wondering why this wouldn't be like planting a food plot? I even asked that qustion and he never did give me a answer. The one thing to remember when dealing with the DNR is they (the officers) don't know "ALL" the rules and they very from officer to officer. We got a letter from Lansing saying it was legale to hunt cotornix quail that we released, I know a guy that did this and got a ticket from a DNR officer (that ticket was latter dismissed). He (the officer that wrote the ticket) said it was illegale to release non-native game birds and hunt them on state land and once they where released they became part of the "wild game bird population", this is true for "Native game birds" but not non-native game birds.
Frank Manning
LandManager North/East
frank1968@tds.net
(810)347-5292
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skola
Junior Member
185 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 08:26:11
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I recieved the same answer as you Frank.
If wild rice was planted around a pond on private property for habitat imporvement would it be legal to hunt over during open waterfowl seasons?
No person shall take or attempt to take migratory game birds (including woodcock)by the aid of baiting (placing feed such as corn, wheat, salt, or other feed to constitute a lure or enticement), or on or over any baited area where a person knows or reasonably should know that the area is baited. Hunters should be aware that a baited area is considered to be baited for 10 days after the removal of the bait. Non-food imitations–for example, plastic corncobs–are not prohibited.
So it looks like this topic is offically closed.
Scott Kolarchick |
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teamasc
Forum Admin
1127 Posts |
Posted - 03/26/2008 : 10:18:15
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The MDNR response was written by someone who does not understand the question, or the federal baiting rules. Directly from the FWS (I have bolded the important parts.):
What Is Baiting?
You cannot hunt waterfowl by the aid of baiting or on or over any baited area where you know or reasonably should know that the area is or has been baited.
Baiting is the direct or indirect placing, exposing, depositing, distributing, or scattering of salt, grain, or other feed that could lure or attract waterfowl to, on, or over any areas where hunters are attempting to take them.
A baited area is any area on which salt, grain, or other feed has been placed, exposed, deposited, distributed, or scattered, if that salt, grain, or feed could serve as a lure or attraction for waterfowl.
The 10-Day Rule
A baited area remains off limits to hunting for 10 days after all salt, grain, or other feed has been completely removed. This rule recognizes that waterfowl will still be attracted to the same area even after the bait is gone.
Waterfowl Hunting on Agricultural Lands
Agricultural lands offer prime waterfowl hunting opportunities. You can hunt waterfowl in fields of unharvested standing crops. You can also hunt over standing crops that have been flooded. You can flood fields after crops are harvested and use these areas for waterfowl hunting.
The presence of seed or grain in an agricultural area rules out waterfowl hunting unless the seed or grain is scattered solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting, normal agricultural harvesting, normal agricultural post-harvest manipulation, or normal soil stabilization practice.
These activities must be conducted in accordance with recommendations of the State Extension Specialists of the Cooperative State Research, Education, and Extension Service of the U.S. Department of Agriculture (Cooperative Extension Service).
Planting
A normal agricultural planting is undertaken for the purpose of producing a crop. The Fish and Wildlife Service does not make a distinction between agricultural fields planted with the intent to harvest a crop and those planted without such intent so long as the planting is in accordance with recommendations from the Cooperative Extension Service.
Normal agricultural plantings do not involve the placement of seeds in piles or other heavy concentrations. Relevant factors include recommended planting dates, proper seed distribution, seed bed preparation, application rate, and seed viability.
A normal soil stabilization practice is a planting for agricultural soil erosion control or post mining land reclamation conducted in accordance with recommendations of the Cooperative Extension Service.
Lands planted by means of top sowing or aerial seeding can only be hunted if seeds are present solely as the result of a normal agricultural planting or normal soil stabilization practice (see section on wildlife food plots).
If we used the interpretation from MDNR that were posted, the MDNR would be in violation of the rules at Harsens Island, Pt Moullie, and a dozen other places. As long as we harvest the rice as would normally be done, or leave it there we are fine. We can't go in and knock all the rice off the plants and leave it there during season, but the stuff on the plants, and any that falls off naturally would be ok.
I remember hunting doves in Indiana one year, where the Indiana DNR was fined by the FWS for baiting waterfowl. They had planted wheat for dove fiels. Just before season, they mowed the fields and left the grain. For a couple years, they would allow goose hunters to use the field in the morning, then the dove hunters got it in the afternoon. The Feds fined them because they mowed the fields with no attempt to pick up the grain, if they had done that, they would have been fine. The fix was to allow dove hunting (their baiting rules are slightly different than waterfowl), but close the fields to waterfowl hunting.
While hunting teal in OH, I have been checked by FWS officers while hunting in flooded buckwheat fields, placed solely for attracting waterfowl and they never batted an eye at it.
Todd Alexander
ASC Membership Services Manager
talexander@team-asc.com
www.team-asc.com
734-552-4839 |
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104 waterfowl food plot?
